Talk:Battle of Five Armies
victory for who? The Battle of Five Armies. Victory for who? I feel the results of the battle are a bit messy and not a simple victory or defeat. In both the book and film lore. Lets take a look.. Thorin was killed, the king of the lonley mountain- arguable a tactical victory for the Orc forces in the long run - Even if they lost the strategic objective of holding the Mountain. It births the begeing of the end for the Drawfs as a power player in Middle Earth. The Men, Elves. remaining Drawfs and Bilbo get to split up the gold. But overall the loss of Throin and the heavy losses on the Drawf army is likley a larger loss to the West then gaining the gold. A Pyrrhic victory at best. '' :A pyrrhic victory is not simply a costly victory. For this battle to be a pyrrhic victory for the Dwarves, Elves and the Dale, it would have had to be so disastrous that the outcome ultimately benefited the Orcs and Wargs. As the latter suffered a crushing defeat, this was hardly the case. --CrappyScrap (talk) 16:56, April 13, 2016 (UTC) Non-canon Info I think we should separate the canon and non-canon information. Canon information goes in the infobox, while non-canon (e.g. Film: 10,000 Guldur Orcs 10,000-20,000 Gundabad Orcs, 200 Goblins, 50 Wargs, 3000 Bats, and 20-50 Trolls), which also needs citations or references, should go ''under the "Portrayal in adaptations" section. —' Darkchylde' (talk • ) 14:01,12/19/2014 :I agree.--DarkLantern (talk) 15:08, December 19, 2014 (UTC) BILBO AND THE BATTLE Bilbo Sitting The Battle Out Why is this little section worded like this: "Bilbo Baggins tried to sit out from the battle on Ravenhill which was held by the Elves and where also Gandalf had withdrawn to. Also, Bilbo Baggins tried to sit out the battle in Elf-held territory. And if you're wondering where Bilbo was during the battle, he was trying to sit it out." To me, this is obviously an attack on Peter Jackson's portrayal of Bilbo participating in the battle in the new film. This wiki should be objective in relaying LOTR information. If this isn't changed in a few days, I'm changing it. Were-worms I know the info-box template is locked, but shouldn't we add Were-worms to the film only section?belacreteet (talk) 05:53, January 17, 2015 (UTC) I agree. I would have added the wereworms to the infobox if it weren't locked, seeing as how they're the only group that wasn't included. Also, I'm trying to get some tidying up done on the Orc page, if anyone wants to check it out on the talk page. How many Elves/Dwarves were there really? Movies After doing this and this for almost 10 different scenes from the movies I have concluded this: The Dwarves had: ' 'THEATRICAL 2,528 Dwarf Infantry (1264 Pikeman, 480 Swordsman, 784 Axeman) 6''' Cavalry Lieutenants '''13 Sons of Durin 1''' Hog Rider '''EXTENDED 2,880 'Dwarf Infantry (1440 Pikeman, 960 Axeman, 480 Swordsman) '''600 '''Cavalry '''8 '''Ballistas '''4 '''Chariots '''13 '''Sons of Durin '''1 '''Hog Rider ---- '''The Elves had: ' '''THEATRICAL/EXTENDED '''1,940 '''Spearman '''3,000 '''Archers '''672 '''Swordsman '''448 '''Heavy Swordsman '''10 '''Heavy Cavalry '''1 '''Elf King ( ^ 6,071 total) ------------------------------------------------ Thanks for reading, hopefully these numbers can help in recreating battles in total war or other similar things or just satisfying your curiosity. M4semperfi (talk) 04:41, December 13, 2016 (UTC)